<div dir="ltr">Dear Miguel, Thank you for organizing this effort to modernize the IPOL software guidelines. It sorely needs to be done.<div> </div><div>As a high level comment, I agree with the general theme of relaxing constraints to encourage more submissions. I also agree with Pascal Monasse's comment advising against removing "all the restrictions unilaterally". Let me remind that the point of having the guide is to "facilitate the production and review of verifiable and usable software for reproducible research." Any rule that doesn't contribute toward that is unnecessary, but on the other hand, you don't want a complete willy-nilly free-for-all, so please consider * portability -- if the code has obscure platform requirements, the research isn't really "reproducible" * readability -- if the code works but is a convoluted mess, reviewers and users will have a hard time following what it does, and it won't be "verifiable" * usabillity -- if the code lacks a clear README or only interoperates with an obscure file format, users won't know how to use it > - We accept not only C/C++ but also Python and MATLAB and we're open > to other languages eventually. Yes, the docs are badly out of date. The IPOL main page has an announcement from 2015(!) "From now on, IPOL will accept Matlab source code. Very soon, we will update the submission procedure accordingly." without corresponding indication in the software guide. >> - All those technical terms give the impression that we're going to >> reject anything which does not follow exactly the norm of the compile >> (C89, C99, C++98), which is not true. > > Still, having standard conforming code for C and C++ seems important to me for > portability. Naturally, as Python and Matlab have no such strict standards, > this does not apply to them. </div><div>Like Pascal said, portability is important. Please nail things down a bit to keep that. Do you want authors to make unlimited use of nonstandard C++ extensions? #pragmas? inline assembly? Probably not. For C++, I suggest to loosen the guidelines to explicitly allow C++11 (possibly also C++14 and C++17). It is a huge step forward for the language from C++98. For Matlab, the toolboxes are often individually purchased and very expensive. Encourage authors to use only what they need. Encourage Octave-compatible Matlab code where possible. >> We should remove lines such as: >> - max 80 characters per line, max 1000 lines per file > > Again, why? We do not want messy code, this is not too much to ask from > authors. Whether code fits in 80 chars or uses -Wextra in the makefile is pretty superficial, and I am strongly in favor of removing such rules. But we want to encourage readable code, and there should be some explicit guidelines. It helps the reviewers focus on what we care about and gives something authoritative for reviewers to lean on if they need to persuade an author to clean up messy code. Based on code I have seen as an IPOL reviewer, the main guidelines I would make are (1) "please indent code" (it is super easy to do, there are automatic tools for it, and it really does help readability), and (2) "please give variables and functions reasonable English names, and try to make them correspond to the article". > I'll create a Google Doc with the proposed text and I'll send the link to edit it. I look forward to your Doc! Best, Pascal <div> </div><div> </div><div> </div></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"> <div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Jul 6, 2017 at 2:57 AM, Miguel Colom <<a href="mailto:colom@cmla.ens-cachan.fr" target="_blank">colom@cmla.ens-cachan.fr</a>> wrote: <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Quoting Jean-Michel Morel <<a href="mailto:moreljeanmichel@gmail.com" target="_blank">moreljeanmichel@gmail.com</a>>: <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"> Dear all, Enric is absolutely right to ask for a formal vote on a final text. The preparation of the text might be done with an online google doc? </blockquote> All right, then. I'll create a Google Doc with the proposed text and I'll send the link to edit it. Best, Miguel<div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5"> <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"> Jean-Michel Morel <a href="mailto:moreljeanmichel@gmail.com" target="_blank">moreljeanmichel@gmail.com</a> On Thu, Jul 6, 2017 at 10:47 AM, Loic Simon <<a href="mailto:loic.simon@ensicaen.fr" target="_blank">loic.simon@ensicaen.fr</a>> wrote: <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"> Dear Miguel, Dear Enric, I think that Miguel should send a draft of his proposed modifications and it can be validated/amended by editorial board members without need of a meeting. That would allow to at least correct quickly the misleading information, and we can start a sound discussion on other points on which there is no consensus. Best, Loïc On Thu, Jul 6, 2017 at 10:41 AM, Miguel Colom <<a href="mailto:colom@cmla.ens-cachan.fr" target="_blank">colom@cmla.ens-cachan.fr</a>> wrote: <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"> Quoting Enric Meinhardt-Llopis <<a href="mailto:enric.meinhardt@cmla.ens-cachan.fr" target="_blank">enric.meinhardt@cmla.ens-cachan.fr</a>>: Dear all, <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"> You are talking about major changes to IPOL here. Should we summon the whole editorial board to approve these changes? (arrange a meeting, or send a mail to everybody with a poll to explicitly accept each of the changes) Maybe not all the people in the editorial board are reading this mailing list, or maybe they are not reading it this week. I want to have a voice in these changes but I'm not sure that this mailing list reaches everybody. </blockquote> Dear Enric, I think that to remove the false information in the IPOL pages (Software Guidelines, FAQ, help, etc.) is urgente and should be done now. Some of that false claims are that we don't support MATLAB, among others. We wouldn't be deciding anything new, but just correcting the docs. About summoning all the Editorial Board or emailing them, as you wish. My opinion is that we should be way more agile, in the sense that if we detect that our information is false, that we can improve it quickly, and someone has already taken the responsibility to do it, then it should be done immediately. I'm afraid that if we don't be that agile, most of the time things won't be done at all because we'll be waiting for eventual discussions that won't ever happen and in the worst case this wait will block the actions. My proposal is to simply update the docs and to rearrange some parts (move the C/++ to a dedicated part). Given said that, if you really think that it's necessary that all the Editorial Board votes, let's do that then. I'm not opposed at all. Best, Miguel <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"> Best, Enric 2017-07-04 16:10 GMT+02:00, Jose Luis Lisani <<a href="mailto:joseluis.lisani@uib.es" target="_blank">joseluis.lisani@uib.es</a>>: <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"> I agree with Miguel suggestions about the Submission Procedure and the Software Guidelines. I can update the information appearing in the web page, but first we should all agree in the new guidelines. </blockquote> -- IPOL - Image Processing On Line - <a href="http://ipol.im/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://ipol.im/</a> contact <a href="mailto:edit@ipol.im" target="_blank">edit@ipol.im</a> - <a href="http://www.ipol.im/meta/contact/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.ipol.im/meta/contact/</a> news+feeds twitter @IPOL_journal - <a href="http://www.ipol.im/meta/feeds/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.ipol.im/meta/feeds/</a> announces <a href="mailto:announce@list.ipol.im" target="_blank">announce@list.ipol.im</a> - <a href="http://tools.ipol.im/mm/announce/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://tools.ipol.im/mm/announce/</a> discussions <a href="mailto:discuss@list.ipol.im" target="_blank">discuss@list.ipol.im</a> - <a href="http://tools.ipol.im/mm/discuss/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://tools.ipol.im/mm/discuss/</a> </blockquote> -- IPOL - Image Processing On Line - <a href="http://ipol.im/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://ipol.im/</a> contact <a href="mailto:edit@ipol.im" target="_blank">edit@ipol.im</a> - <a href="http://www.ipol.im/meta/contact/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.ipol.im/meta/contact/</a> news+feeds twitter @IPOL_journal - <a href="http://www.ipol.im/meta/feeds/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.ipol.im/meta/feeds/</a> announces <a href="mailto:announce@list.ipol.im" target="_blank">announce@list.ipol.im</a> - <a href="http://tools.ipol.im/mm/announce/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://tools.ipol.im/mm/announce/</a> discussions <a href="mailto:discuss@list.ipol.im" target="_blank">discuss@list.ipol.im</a> - <a href="http://tools.ipol.im/mm/discuss/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://tools.ipol.im/mm/discuss/</a> </blockquote> -- IPOL - Image Processing On Line - <a href="http://ipol.im/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://ipol.im/</a> contact <a href="mailto:edit@ipol.im" target="_blank">edit@ipol.im</a> - <a href="http://www.ipol.im/meta/contact/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.ipol.im/meta/contact/</a> news+feeds twitter @IPOL_journal - <a href="http://www.ipol.im/meta/feeds/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.ipol.im/meta/feeds/</a> announces <a href="mailto:announce@list.ipol.im" target="_blank">announce@list.ipol.im</a> - <a href="http://tools.ipol.im/mm/announce/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://tools.ipol.im/mm/announce/</a> discussions <a href="mailto:discuss@list.ipol.im" target="_blank">discuss@list.ipol.im</a> - <a href="http://tools.ipol.im/mm/discuss/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://tools.ipol.im/mm/discuss/</a> </blockquote> </blockquote> -- IPOL - Image Processing On Line - <a href="http://ipol.im/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://ipol.im/</a> contact <a href="mailto:edit@ipol.im" target="_blank">edit@ipol.im</a> - <a href="http://www.ipol.im/meta/contact/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.ipol.im/meta/contact/</a> news+feeds twitter @IPOL_journal - <a href="http://www.ipol.im/meta/feeds/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.ipol.im/meta/feeds/</a> announces <a href="mailto:announce@list.ipol.im" target="_blank">announce@list.ipol.im</a> - <a href="http://tools.ipol.im/mm/announce/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://tools.ipol.im/mm/announce/</a> discussions <a href="mailto:discuss@list.ipol.im" target="_blank">discuss@list.ipol.im</a> - <a href="http://tools.ipol.im/mm/discuss/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://tools.ipol.im/mm/discuss/</a> </div></div></blockquote></div> </div>